http://www.pp-international.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=971
http://wiki.pp-international.net/International_Workshop_2007

We The People can take control of society…

Man, will this barfatrocious Ambiguous Collective logical fallacy ever die?

Propaganda isn't advertising or proselytization, communism isn't sharing, and file-"trading" is a pretty thin representation of Capitalism given the lack of capital investment.

And bringing Marxism up in the original post was asking for
accusations in being a Marxist yourself.

Now that's just stupid.

I know I have a few Swedish fans because I occasionally notice I'm getting visited by members of Swedish forums discussing my "Conversation with God".

This is not a perverse attempt at self publicity. It's just that if you read any of my shit, it should be bleedin obvious that I'm on your side.

My concern is spelt out in the summary. Your success is actually a threat. At this point in time, they are still much stronger than we are and, more pertinently, much more aggressive and violent than we either are or would ever want to be.

It is a matter of some concern, for example, that Sweden is about the only place you can get away with this level of opposition to the current meme. We need this technology to be used in every country on the planet, but every other country is able to point to - what they call - the obvious "abuse" of this liberty by those commie Swedes - and use your example as ongoing justification for draconian restrictions within their own borders.

I fear that unless clones of you appear, by the thousand, in at least dozens of other countries, you may be crushed out of existence like we're seeing with Freetown Christiana and, in the process, allow them to seize control of the p2p environment (for example with compulsory key escrow). We should, in my view, avoid provoking them to that stage because it will be very difficult to regain control from that position.

What that means, in practice, I don't pretend to know. It's only since watching "Steal" an hour ago, that you've provoked me into thinking about the problem. I think my immediate aim is to get you and others thinking about the problem.

I can see partial answers. For example, in answering the question most important for the capitalists - how can we make money within this model? - you have actually demonstrated one of the obvious means; the request for voluntary donations.

After Matrix I, for example, I would have gladly donated $5 or $10 towards the making of Matrix II. Although, having been disappointed with Matrix II I wouldn't have donated to III - but hey, that's market forces for you.

Essentially all their potential customers can, instead, become "social investors". I have no problem, for example, if so many people fund the making of your sequel that you end up making a huge profit on the deal. I'm pretty damn sure that you'll fund parts 3, 4, 5 etc and they'll get bigger and better as we go. If you end up driving fast hifis and luxury villas into the bargain, good luck to you. We'll happily reward your excellence. Just keep the good shit coming our way.

I'm also aware that the obvious counter-argument to my pessimism is that you are also setting a magnificent example which might inspire the revolution in much more positive ways than early marxist revolutionaries could ever have imagined. It's up to networks in other nations to fight their own battles and thus contribute to winning the war.

All I know for certain, at the moment, is that we can't afford complacency. We need to think about what we are doing and how best to get there from here…

I do have to close with one "off topic" question. How is that you guys can attract so much national support for your overtly libertarian activities in respect of filesharing while the Swedes in general are so hostile to another libertarian issue close to my heart - the consumption of Cannabis? Seems to be a very selective attitude to liberty.

The goal of propaganda isn't to prove anything right, but to spread ideas. Look at the churches - there isn't much logic in religion, and still they control large portions of population through terror or love or whatever, never through logic though.

File-sharing is communist. File-trading is capitalist. Even if it's the same thing. It's all just a matter of point of view. But to spread one's POV she may chose to exagerate its differences from the opposite side.

And bringing Marxism up in the original post was asking for accusations in being a Marxist yourself.

Communism and sharing is just as natural as markets. It's so hypocrit of you to engage in communist activities and simultanously call this Marxist rant "worm-brained".

(Paraphrasing and breathless exclamation-points included free-of-charge…because you like free.)

• "It's 'legal' here even if it isn't over there! …not that we're going to squawl like scalded cats the split-second what's 'legal' over here CHANGES, leaving our asses dangling over the pikes."

• "Our very BEST intellectual-lite argument for sharing files is a worm-brained Marxist rant against "profit" — even though we certainly expect to get paid at the end of a week's worth of days of rolling out of bed every morning in order to go to work! ….hey, c'mon, gimme a break, here — the camera was rolling, and I needed to come up with something fast that Chill Dren living off parental allowances or government school-grants could relate to!"

• "'Markets' are not natural. …which means that when islanders trade coconuts for fish, or sex for gaijin dollars — or what have you — they're breaking some immutable communist doctrine that only Swedish Shaggys can comprehend even as they're paying bona-fide fiat MONEY for more SERVERS in the computer hardware MARKET. (Meanwhile, plundering Irish monestaries from a drakkar-headed longboat is perfectly 'natural'.)"

• "Yay Scandihoovia! Boo US!"

(sigh)

How on earth is it possible that, with all the time in the world, these guys couldn't come up with better than this self-serving tripe? — If they're going to make a case against intellectual property-rights, why don't they?

I observe they've missed a saliant point in that nobody pirates IMAX movies for obvious reasons — which would have been the natural follow-up to clip regarding the music industry rediscovering that live performances are where the cash was and still is (in markets, you dumbshits).

Catch me and my swell rips at Demonoid.

if it bugs u that almost every democratic idea society is founded upon is currupted…

A democracy elected the Nazis…..er, you knew that…right?

fighting the coporation of society

Championing logic and grammar!

i watched the film and then uploaded it to 3 torrent sites. gotta love the spread of information.

AA

if it bugs u that almost every democratic idea society is founded upon is currupted in our corporate liberal economic form
of democracy that we actually have to put up with then i guess thats why your here. The Free Flow of information and
knowledge is integral to democarcy and copyright stands between minds and access to that knowledge. the mainstream
media allows only those whom can affort it access to that knowledge.

heres an interesting place that promotes the free flow of information (there are many many organisations already set up
and running to support this notion of free info = free society):

http://portal.unesco.org/ci/en/ev.php-URL_ID=5356&URL_DO=DO_TOPIC&URL_SECTION=201.html

fighting the coporation of society

The reason i'm writeing is to offer any assistance i can, although i don't have many technical skills which would be of use I have been useing p2p since napster was new and before that i spent all my time on IRC, FTP and HTTP warez sites so my knowledge of the history of fileshareing and the internet in general is good:) I have always had a keen interest in 'the system' and it's methods of control be it religous, political or financial, especialy the modern music and movie industrys and though i could rant and rave for days about the problems with and caused by the monopolys which dominate mainstream culture I find it more productive to try to create a viable alternative. In my job i work in the music industry (as local crew, sort of a roadie that doesn't go on the road) and have been able to see first hand how the industry works, I am convinced that if the few rich record companys were to vanish it could only be a good thing for the artists and fans alike. I am also aquanted with a few independant film makers (my dad was a cameraman / independent film maker and now he teaches media studies) and I beleave that simmilary if the big distributers weren't in control anymore we would get to see many more great small films and have a much wider choice thsn that currently on offer in blockbusters. I like to think that i have lots of sensible idears and insights into how we could live without copyright and how artists could make money while retaining there creative freedom and would be more than willing to share these (without any strings attached of cource:),

I'm probably not makeing the best impression at tho mo because it's like 4am and i'm very ….er, tired:j well if you want anyone to help with the writeing (which honestly i'm much better at when it's in focus;) or any of that sort of stuff (what sort of stuff? who knows) then i would love to help. Also if you need someone in England to help arrange or do stuff then i'm ya man (i only work when i want to and i'm not very commited to my job (infact i'm rather commited to destroying the institution which employs me) so i'ld be more than willing to take a few days off for a project as nobel as this;)

If you think i can be of anyhelp what so ever then please drop me an e-mail moc.oohay|foruenivlac#moc.oohay|foruenivlac,
hope i haven't put you off with my inane rambling.

once again, well done for every thing you've done already and good luck on anything your going to do,

great film btw - 1.3gb as an iso is a tad user unfriendly though :)